027: Lynn Serafinn – How to Heal Humanity and the Planet by Changing the Way We Sell

Lynn-Serafinn
Lynn comes to us from
The7GracesofMarketing.com
Lynn is a certified, award winning coach, teacher, marketer, social media expert, radio host, speaker and author of the number one bestseller:
The 7 Graces of Marketing: How to Heal Humanity and the Planet by Changing the Way We Sell

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Podcast Highlights:

About Lynn Serafinn:
Originally I’m from New York, I spent the first 40 something years in my life in the States and then moved to England in 1999.

From the music industry originally; I was a professional musician for many years, everything from classical to electronic dance and I ran my own studio and a small record label for a long time.

I have an MA in Adult Education and Distance Learning.

Left corporate in 2007s & started as life coach and did coaching for while but then what I was doing also is coming back to one of my first love which was writing.

I published a book (2008) that did very well. Because that book did well and I was self published, that’s when peoples started of asking me about marketing. Now it occurred to me at that point that I had been marketing myself for most of life.

Now suddenly immersed in these whole new world, called Web 2.0, and dealing with blogging and social media which wasn’t there when I had gone into, with the day job, none of the stuff was there. I suddenly, I’ve realized that was developing my own style of marketing.

Sign of the Times
There was a lot of really schmoozy formula in marketers out online then and they still are but they we’re really, really and full force around toward the end of the, what we call in Britain, the naughty sooner that the 2007, 2008 and 2009.

They were very aggressive, very manipulative, a lot of what I call is scarcity marketing, a lot of persuasive marketing, a lot of invasive marketing and it’s still there today. I had a different style and it seems to work and but I didn’t sit down to analyze what it was.

May be on to Something
As people started coming to me and they said, hey, you’re doing really well with your book. Can you help me to do this with mine, can you help me launch my book, can you help me build platform, all of these kinds of things. It made me sit down and have to analyze, what was it that I was doing that worked, what was it that I was doing that was different…

That’s really were The 7 Graces of Marketing came in because I started to realize that they was a heck of lot of stuff about marketing that I could not stand. And furthermore, I kept hearing most of my clients coming to me saying I can’t stand marketing. I think it’s evil, I think it’s the devil, you know, that kind of, I mean not really not their words but basically they hated it. They thought it was manipulative, they thought they’d be dis-ingenuous if they engaged in it and as result they didn’t do it and or if they tried it, they did it in a inauthentic way that did not feel good to them.

Exploring the History of Marketing
But marketing actually, as I started to explore it, I realized that it was really founded upon a conscious system of psychological manipulation. Now a lot of people would say, well yeah, I know… duh, but when I really examined it historically back from around the earlier century and its beginnings we’d say, Edward Bernays who was considered the father of modern marketing.

When we get into mass production…and suddenly what happened was, you had a world where we were capable of producing things faster than we could use them.
That was the critical turning point in history …it’s not just that we were capable of now producing things faster than we could use them, we were also capable of producing things faster than we could dispose off them.

And how the early marketers used psychological manipulation to convince people that they needed more things than they actually needed at the rate, more rapid consumption rate than they actually needed is really what manipulative and destructive marketing is all about.

New Marketing
I believe marketing is very important and I re-frame the concept of marketing in the book,
The 7 Grace of Marketing in this way. I say that marketing is simply the communication that we, marketing is the act of communicating that we have something of value to share.

There are three different paradigms in the book. One is these seven key relationships which we have to be mindful of whenever we’re dealing the different layers of marketing or business or indeed anything, anything in life but especially in business. One is what I called the seven deadly sins of marketing which are things to be mindful of so that you just become self-aware, am I doing this, am I using this as manipulative tools? And then the seven ways which is basically just a paradigm of guide posts.

This is a social awareness book. And so, The 7 Graces, the preferred model, I’ll just list the seven of them, they are connection, inspiration, invitation, directness, transparency, abundance and collaboration.

In The 7 Graces to do ethical marketing, you first and foremost have to look at where am I feeling connected? Where am I not feeling connected?

Most Recent Book:
Tweep-e-licious = 158 Twitter tips and strategies for writers, social entrepreneurs and change makers who want to market their business as like leaders and handbook for you.
Tweep-e-licious is a practical guide as such it took me whereas seven graces took me two years to research and write, this book took me about seven weeks. People can find that either from my website, there’s a link, there’s actually free Twitter class that they can taste and see what kind of ideas I have about it. And then if they want the book, they can get the book.

New Book Due Out This Fall
I’m writing a blogging book called The Social Entrepreneur’s Guide to Successful Blogging.
It’s about sharing really every strategy that I use with my clients. I give as much technical information as I can, you know, plug-ins and this and that. However, I have to offer a caveat no sooner than I offer technical things which is for people seem to want, all the technology changes.

Creating a Valuable Business
If you want to create a viable business, through blogging and social media… You have to constantly ask, what does my reader, what does my visitor, what does my potential client want right now? What is it that they’re looking right now? So you’re always having to put yourself in their shoes and see through their eyes and really understanding it and get your ego out of the way, either and, either your vanity or your hesitance to step up, get both of those extremes out of the way and simply serves the customer.

Gut Check
If marketing a certain way feels really horrible then it’s not right for you and it’s probably not right for anybody. But I do think it is a matter of relearning, reframing what marketing is.
When I’d say to people it’s the act of communicating that you have something of value to share, they just go, wow. And it just gives them so much space to then reinvent it the way that makes it work for them and to their clients because if we are interested in sharing value, as you know your company has the name, has that word in it.

If we are interested in sharing value, then it’s really your chance to sit down and think well what is it that I have that’s valuable and really diving into all of the wonderful assets that you have. I think people grossly undervalue a lot of their personal assets and the experience.
Come back to yourself. Do a really good internal investigation of yourself. Read what is and isn’t working and don’t give up on marketing because you need it, you need it to make your business work.

If you use marketing that feels yuck to you, it will feel yuck to your audience and down the line even if the other one — one more thing, aggressive marketing might make quick sales but it doesn’t win the long term race of this.

Brand Building
If you want to grow a really strong brand online, it’s like planting seeds in your back garden. If you water them every single day and say grow, grow, grow, they’re not going to grow any faster than they’re going to grow. You just have to, you know, if you put them on a hot house and give all kinds of artificial fertilizers, they’ll grow really fast and they’ll have really tough skins and they won’t taste very good. You know what I mean? You have to let a business grow organically. And it doesn’t mean you have to be lazy about it.
It’s is about cultivating and nurturing it. And allowing people to really understand what your brand is, what it stands for and who you are as a human being?

Contact Lynn

Websites
The7GracesofMarketing.com
SpiritAuthors.com

Twitter
@LynnSerafinn
@7GracesMarketng
@SpiritAuthors

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/LynnSerafinn
http://facebook.com/groups/7GracesGlobalGarden

Have a listen to my chat with Lynn Serafinn.

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BigValueBigBusiness.com

Lynn Serafinn
The7GracesofMarketing.com

Transcript

James Lynch: All right, Welcome back my friends to yet another edition of the Big Value Big Business podcast. I am your host James Lynch. Today I am really, really big time super excited about my very special guest, her name is Lynn Serafinn. Lynn it comes to us from of The7GracesOfMarketing.com that is with the number seven. Lynn it is certified award-winning coach, teacher, marketer, social media expert, radio host, speaker and author of the number best seller The Seven Graces Marketing, How to Heal Humanity and the Planet by Changing the Way We Sell. It is pleasure to welcome Lynn to the Big Value Big Business podcast. Lynn, hello and how are you today?

Lynn Serafinn: I’m doing well. I am calling you today from Britain. If you’re going to hear a very kind of mid Atlantic accent because I’m originally from the States but I’ve lived in Britain until last 15 years. So that’s just to explain next to people half of the time. I always have to get that that out of the way because half of the time people say, where is she from? So I just wanted to say that first.

James Lynch: Great Britain and it’s the afternoon here. We’re just closing out the morning here in the East Coast but it’s the afternoon there where you are.

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah, it’s afternoon here.

James Lynch: So, yeah. Well listen, I’m glad you decided to come on and thank you very much. And, you know, I’m really excited to learn more about how we can help heal humanity and the planet by changing the way we sell as your tagline says and, you know, your movement to create both an ethical and the community focused business kind of like Big Value Big Business, coming just leading with value and doing the right thing. So, shall we march on, does that sound like a plan?

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah, I’ll follow your lead James. Be the leader —

James Lynch: All right.

Lynn Serafinn: And I follow where will you take me.

James Lynch: I like it, it sounds good. Well, I usually start with a little history. We just want to go find out a little bit about Lynn Serafinn and a little bit about where you came from. And, you know, just how you came to be where you are today?

Lynn Serafinn: Well, originally I’m from New York, so and I —

James Lynch: Cool.

Lynn Serafinn: I spent the first 40 something years in my life in the States and then moved to England in 1999. And I came from the music industry originally. I was a professional musician for many years, everything from classical to electronic trance and I ran my own studio and a small record label for a long time.

And then decided I wanted a day job for a little while, of course it didn’t last because when you’re used to being kind of a free spirit it doesn’t last forever. So, I went into teaching because I did like teaching and I had a teaching background. So I went back into it and when I moved to Britain taught within the college system here. And I was teaching music tech and training teachers in using technology for educational purposes. I have an MA in Adult Education and Distance Learning. So, that gave me kind of technological edge. It’s quite specific. So I was developing online courses but it’s also sharing teachers how to utilize technology to, not just training but to give more ways for students to learn and to learned at a distance or to learn at home or to increase their learning or to help students that might have special needs and things like that. So I very, very interested in education or I was interested in communication, I was interested in technology and media and all those kinds of things.

I climbed the educational corporate ladder and then burnt out which in 2007, I just said I can’t deal with it anymore. And left and then went back into having my own business. And so at that time, I started as life coach because I had a qualification and that I was actually finishing a qualification in that as well. And however it took a kind of curved ball. I did coaching for while but then what I was doing also is coming back to one of my first love which was writing.

So I started publishing and I published a book that did very well. Because that book did well and I was self published, that’s when peoples started of asking me about marketing. Now it occurred to me at that point that I had been marketing myself for most of life. I mean I was a freelance musician. All you do is, you know, flaunt your stuff and try to get people, to try to get people to hire for a gig, try to sell your record not just in the public but to distributors. You know, I always having to prepare promotional kits and liaise with magazines and record labels and distribute it on shops. So I was always engaged in marketing and I was also, I always attend a lot of event to organizing for guest speakers because I was very interested in philosophy. So I brought in a lot of speakers from India and I did a lot of that as well.

So I have a lot of experience kind of marketing things that I was doing but what I haven’t done to that point was sit down and strategically analyze what it was that I was doing so that I can help other people. But when I launched a book that I wrote back in 2008 and it did very well on Amazon because I was now suddenly immersed in these whole new world, called Web 2.0, you know, and dealing with all of a sudden blogging and social media which wasn’t there when I had left, when I had gone into, with the day job, none of the stuff was there. I suddenly, I’ve realized that was developing my own style of marketing. There was a lot of and probably some of your listeners if they’ve been in business for a while, they probably realize there were a lot of really schmoozy formula in marketers out online than they still are but we’re really, really and full force around toward the end of the, what we call in Britain, the naughty sooner that the 2007, 2008 and 2009. They were really a full force and they were very aggressive, very manipulative, a lot of what I call is scarcity marketing, a lot of persuasive marketing, a lot of invasive marketing and it’s still there today. But I didn’t like that and so I developed, I had a different style and it seems to work and but I didn’t sit down to analyze what it was. As people started coming to me and they said, hey, you’re doing really well with your book. Can you help me to do this with mine, can you help me launch my book, can you help me build platform, all of these kinds of things. It made me sit down and have to analyze, what was it that I was doing that worked, what was it that I was doing that was different because that’s why they said they were coming to me, it’s because I was not the same as what they saw. And it was interesting, it was an interesting period of time around 2009, ‘10 in there because I had to sit down and actually be very reflective on what I liked to that marketing as an activity and what I really hated about marketing, as you know, in terms of on a wider social scale.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: And that’s really were The 7 Graces of Marketing came in because I started to realize that they was a heck of lot of stuff about marketing that I could not stand. And furthermore, I kept hearing most of my clients coming to me saying I can’t stand marketing. I think it’s evil, I think it’s the devil, you know, that kind of, I mean not really not their words but basically they hated it. They thought it was manipulative, they thought they’d be dis-ingenuous if they engaged in it and as result they didn’t do it and or if they tried it, they did it in a inauthentic way that did not feel good to them.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: And because of that there was a mismatch between who they were and how they were speaking to the public and the results they were getting. And after a while if they didn’t do it all, they’ve got a business. And if they do it dis-ingenuously, they either felt it, you know, they didn’t like it themselves or people didn’t trust them or something didn’t quite work. So obviously there was problem in here. And I started looking into what were the mechanisms that what actually not working? And that was, that led me to really, James, two years of research to discover a lot about the history of marketing that I never knew because I didn’t, I had my degrees in social sciences, I have a, you know, I did entered the music college in social anthropology and then education. I had no degree in marketing. I didn’t know anything about the history of it.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: And in fact the students today, I’ve found out since doing a lot of talks at campuses and all, a lot of them don’t know the history of it either.

James Lynch: Right.

Lynn Serafinn: But marketing actually, as I started to explore it, I realized that it was really founded upon a conscious system of psychological manipulation. Now a lot of people would say, well yeah, I know… duh, but I’m like when I really examined it historically back from around the earlier century and its beginnings we’d say, Edward Bernays who was considered the father of modern marketing. When I’ve really started exploring that in early marketing campaigns with the companies who where into mass production, you know, all the whole, that whole period of time with the big golden age of capitalism, you know, when the Ford and the American Tobacco Company, all of these things. When they were starting —

James Lynch: Oh, Industrial Revolution.

Lynn Serafinn: Well, it’s going to post Industrial Revolution but it’s when capitalism combined with it and really shot it forward.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: When we get into mass production.

James Lynch: You Madison Avenue was born.

Lynn Serafinn: Exactly, well, Madison Avenue came because it’s, once mass production came in suddenly what happened was, you had a world where we were capable of producing things faster than we could use them.

James Lynch: Yes.

Lynn Serafinn: And that was the critical turning point in history because and here is the thing too, it’s not just that we were capable of now producing things faster than we could use them, we were also capable of producing things faster than we could dispose off them.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: And that’s the thing that we are very experiencing today. This is, we are actually now as a planet, as the society suffering the results of or experiencing the results of that hundred years of kind of really linear, sell it, used it and throw it out. And this is where, you know, recycling has come in, we have to recycle goods in this but I don’t think people actually really see that, yeah sure we can recycle all the plastics and everything we want or metals or whatever.

The actual issue starts with consumerism and so the real is you has to do with the fact that we are producing more than we can use. And how the early marketers used psychological manipulation to convince people that they needed more things than they actually needed at the rate, more rapid consumption rate than they actually needed is really what manipulative and destructive marketing is all about. I believe marketing is very important and I reframe the concept of marketing in the book, The 7 Grace of Marketing in this way. I say that marketing is simply the communication that we, marketing is the act of communication that we have something of value to share.

James Lynch: Touche’ – I love it.

Lynn Serafinn: And if you look at it this way you say, okay, there’s nothing to do with selling, it must be of value and that it’s simply an act of communication. It has nothing to do with making sales, it has nothing to do with convincing people and it has to have value. If your manipulating, lying, deceiving, using tricks to make people fearful and you are trying to get them to get something that they don’t actually need or too many of something that, you know, more than they actually need.

James Lynch: Sure, sure.

Lynn Serafinn: Then that’s what I — that’s unethical marketing as far as I’m concern. And so that’s really the premise of the book is what are the things that people did that have put us into not just environmental distress but also economic distress, James, people, James, because obviously if you have a whole society that’s been convinced to consume more than they need, what do you end up with? You end up with the society that’s depended upon credit? And then therefore in debt and so not just in individuals end up in this unworkable economic situation. You end up with governments in this unworkable situation and then eventually businesses as well which is why we’ve seen so many businesses go out of business in the last decade. So, the system, capitalism with great idea before mass production and modern marketing, it was a great idea. It worked because we were consuming at a rate that the planet could absorb and that the economy could accommodate. But once you get into mass production, mass transit, you know their travel or whatever and in credit then capitalism collapses. And this is what we’ve been experiencing but if you weave the thread back to the beginning, it has to do with the psychological manipulation of unethical marketing that has programmed us to think that we need to consume at that level. So that’s the premises of it. I know it’s a big mouthful and it may seem very scary or deep or depressing but that’s the premise of the work that I do. That’s my observation and my belief and why I do opposite and help people on see the bad stuff so we can turn it around and to the good stuff, so to speak and try to heal that situation.

James Lynch: Yeah. So, define marketing for me in your own terms as an exchange. Do you have a definition that you often referred to?

Lynn Serafinn: Oh, look what I just said.

James Lynch: Well, how you percieve it now? I’m sorry, the preferred healing type of marketing really exchange.

Lynn Serafinn: Well, the way at least in the book, the way I defined it, there are three different paradigms in the book. One is these seven key relationships which we have to be mindful of whenever we’re dealing the different layers of marketing or business or indeed anything, anything in life but especially in business. One is what I called the seven deadly sins of marketing which are things to be mindful of so that you just become self-aware, am I doing this, am I using this as manipulative tools? And then the seven ways which is basically just a paradigm of guide posts. The book I have to say, somebody said to me the other day, it was the first time that I have read it but the book has been out for three years, more than three years now, they say, you know, you should put all these practical stuffs. I said no, I’ve actually written books since then with the practical stuff. That book is not a practical guide. It’s simply a social awareness book. It is not a — this is how you’re going to make money on Facebook kind of book. It’s not that kind of book. This is a social awareness book. And so, The 7 Graces, the preferred model, I’ll just list the seven of them, they are connection, inspiration, invitation, directness, transparency, abundance and collaboration. Now, connection is the foundation of all of the others. Connection means that you feel not just connect, you feel connected to your business. You feel connected to yourself, you feel connected to the cause for what you do best, this deserving, you feel connected to your audience, to your clients, to your customers, you also feel connected to the flow of money within your business. And all of these things work together to make a cohesive vision upon which everything else sits. Now, if you have it all in planet, source if one of the seven key relationships as well. So, if you feel connected to source, you’re going to operate your business very differently from somebody who sees sources, i.e. planet resources, earth, water metals, who knows what, money, people. If you feel disconnected from those things, you’re going to see the most separate from you. If you see the most separate from you, then you will exploit them. That’s a point. I mean that’s not a point but an effect. If you — you cannot exploit something you feel connected to. If you feel really, really unconditionally connected and you identify and empathize with someone else or something else, you’re not going to exploit it or him or her. You just won’t do it. If you disconnected, you always will. And that’s a fundamental principle of I think almost any philosophy on the planet. And it’s on unpins everything in The 7 Graces. So, to do ethical marketing, you first and foremost have to look at where am I feeling connected? Where am I not feeling connected? And then from that, the other graces can spring. So, the second one is inspiration and inspiration, the literal meaning of the word is to breathe life into. So marketing should, ethical marketing or any marketing should breathe life into the public. Meaning, not — it shouldn’t give them a candy or a sugar rush of, you know, sugar coated, this makes you feel good kind of thing. I feel warm and fussy.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: That is not inspiration. Inspiration means actually feeding the public with something that breathes life into them that could be good information, it could be any number of things. For me, I deal mainly with people who offer services. They’re rather non-fiction authors, the people who do service industry. So, my way of training them to be inspiring is to let’s look at the information you have that can help people and let’s work out, blogging strategies for instance where you are giving that information to the public in digestible doses so they can actually do something with it. And that’s inspiration; inspiration doesn’t mean writing lots of pretty words and coating Maya Anjalou I should do bluster. But that is not inspiring. It maybe a one shot but like I say, it’s like a sugar rush. Real inspiration means that you are consciously feeding the public something useful and you have, you know what it is that breathes life into your audience so you have to be very aware of what it is that you have to give and you do have to breathe that into your audience so that’s why that’s the second grace. The opposite of inspiration is persuasion. Now persuasion sucks the life out of people. How often do you get somebody in a shopping mall for instance or in a cold call who will, if you say no thank you, they try to use every trick in the book to get you to change your mind. It’s disempowering, it’s disrespectful, it’s not feeding the world, it is not breathing life into, it is sucking, it’s just vampirism. And so, you know, persuasion, that’s why that’s the second of the deadly sins. So I can stop now and take a breather but that’s how they go, they go like, that it’s really just, it’s that simple. How you do it is something that I work with people either it’s consultant or we have training courses and I’m also writing books about the how to like I wrote Twitter book that shows the how to, writing a blog and book that it’s coming out later this year, all of those things. Just loads of ways to apply The 7 Graces. I didn’t want to tell people how to do it in the original book. It was more about, let’s think about this, this is to see how can we use this paradigm to indent ways to change, to turn marketing around.

James Lynch: Yeah. So it’s your philosophy on and a better way to do it, obviously The 7 Graces and I love that now you’re bringing it in to more of a strategic how to improve —

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah, very much so.

James Lynch: Awesome! And what do you have so far? You say you have Twitter, you’re working on a blogging?

Lynn Serafinn: Well, I have a Twitter book out, it came out actually a year and a half ago already.

James Lynch: Okay.

Lynn Serafinn: So it’s called Tweep-e-licious. And it’s — subtitle is 158 Twitter tips and strategies for writers, social entrepreneurs and change makers who want to market their business as like leaders and handbook for you.

James Lynch: Sweet!

Lynn Serafinn: It’s actually, I made the title that because it’s actually 140 characters long. Just little —

James Lynch: Nice, very clever.

Lynn Serafinn: Geek humor, little geek humor. But is a handbook. Tweep-e-licious is a practical guide as such it took me whereas seven graces took me two years to research and write, this book took me about seven weeks.

James Lynch: Nice.

Lynn Serafinn: I was like, because I knew it inside out I have the —

James Lynch: Well, you have the foundation already. You know, you just —

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah.

James Lynch: How do you apply it to the platform?

Lynn Serafinn: Exactly. And that book is done very well and so you know, people can find that either from my website, there’s a link, there’s actually free Twitter class that they can taste and see what kind of ideas I have about it. And then if they want the book, they can get the book.

James Lynch: Right.

Lynn Serafinn: But, so they can do that if they want the 90-minutes class on my site. So there is that and then yes I’m writing a blogging book called The Social Entrepreneur’s Guide to Successful Blogging. And that, if I ever get a breathing, anything breathing space this summer, I intend to finish it this summer and have it out some time in maybe October of 2014. And that book is again, it’s sharing really every strategy that I use with my clients. I give as much technical information as I can, you know, plug-ins and this and that. However, I have to offer a caveat no sooner than I offer technical things which is for people seem to want. all the technology changes.

James Lynch: Absolutely, absolutely.

Lynn Serafinn: So I want to make sure that it has strategic import that doesn’t go out of date, that doesn’t become obsolete. And because really blogging to me, I see blogging as probably the proto and podcasting of, like what you’re doing, which is just an audio blogging, it’s the same thing, just audio.

James Lynch: Absolutely. Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: I see it as the prototypal new paradigm form of marketing because what you do through blogging or vlogging or audio or podcasting, is you’re offering value to the public. You’re breathing life into the public with good information, good content. You’re supporting the public and in the mean time they are learning about you, they are developing a relationship with you, they are trusting you, they see that you’re not going to disappear, they can get to know who you are, what you’re about and that’s the best way to market. I mean, if you think of in the old days when, I mean, think back 150 years or something, before all of this happen and you’d think of somebody living in a village and if you wanted to go get a hat or something, you know, or get a tailor or a blacksmith or what. Who would you go to? You would go to the person that everybody knew, you would go to the person who was the most reliable, the most experienced, the nicest and the one that everybody said, that they have used because they think their work is really, really good. You wouldn’t necessary go the cheapest person but you definitely go to the one that is all of those things.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: Now, how do you that in a virtual environment? In really weird new paradigm marketing is simply going back to the best of who were —

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: — in the past —

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: And bringing it into a technological setting.

James Lynch: The tribes.

Lynn Serafinn: It’s all it is. The tribes.

James Lynch: The tribes, Seth Godin said it best, I mean we are going back to the communities of village mindset where —

Lynn Serafinn: Absolutely.

James Lynch: It’s word of mouth.

Lynn Serafinn: Absolutely, and in the book, in Social Entrepreneurs Guide to Successful Blogging, the book that’s coming later this year.

James Lynch: Yes.

Lynn Serafinn: I really talk about getting into that. It’s not just about — I think one of the biggest challenges, my clients — because I work as a consultant. I help people build their platforms as well. So I don’t just write, you know, I work one to one and I also teach courses in this in groups. So one of the biggest challenges are students or my clients, our clients have is really, really understanding who their audience actually is and how to speak to them in a way that is giving them something. And learning how to market without actually selling is — there’s a lot of them learning, there’s a lot of them learning to do.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: And what’s interesting also is that a lot of people do the opposite. They don’t bother to think what does there audience actually looking for and what can I give them? And where do I take them from there? Because let’s say, okay, let’s say I’m researching something. Let’s say like for instance of, you know, weight loss people really big into weight loss da-di-duh. So let’s say somebody is researching something about, I have a client right now who does — well, I won’t say weight loss, this is health. I have a client who does all gluten-free stuff, whatever.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: Okay, so let’s say somebody goes to her site and they found her somehow I just tweet or Google about gluten-free. And so that’s great. So they go and they find this wonderful and but then they’re going to, okay now what do I do? They’re going to ask themselves, if they’re really serious, if they were just looking up something and they wanted to find out a fact then they’d probably, that’s it. But if they’re very serious a lifestyle change and if the article inspired them about a lifestyle change, they are going to say what do I do next? Now, what a lot of people miss in their blogging is the, what do I do next? They have to, if you do not tell your audience, give your audience and not tell but if you do that give your audience some choices like, if you’re looking for a product, here is a link and go find one or if you want to get in touch with me, somebody drop me a line on my contact page.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: I mean it’s something as simple as that, something as simple as that. If you can’t help them take the next step, then you’re not helping them progress. Now not everybody is going click those links but some of them are.

Lynn Serafinn: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: And if you want to create a viable business, a viable business through blogging and social media, those are the kind of things you have to think of. You have to constantly ask, what does my reader, what does my visitor, what does my potential client want right now? What is it that they’re looking right now? So you’re always having to put yourself in their shoes and see through their eyes and really understanding it and get your ego out of the way, either and, either your vanity or your hesitance to step up, get both of those extremes out of the way and simply serves the custumer.

James Lynch: I love it. I love it. And I was going to, that’s funny. I did go to your site and I did go the press portion. And you have several topics that you speak to about marketing and about the 7 Deadly Sins, 7 Graces. And I was keying in on the relationship with our audience and that was and you naturally segued and flowed right in to that because that is so important.

Lynn Serafinn: It’s huge?

James Lynch: Is knowing and understanding and taking them by the hand, should they choose to be led?

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah and give them the choice.

James Lynch: Yes.

Lynn Serafinn: Well, they don’t want to be led in that way. They want to be shown the choices. I mean I believe in respecting our audience and say, okay well here are the options that I have or you can look here, you know.

James Lynch: Well, that’s what I mean by leading. I don’t mean persuading or I don’t mean directing, I don’t mean to herding them, I mean if they’re looking for information, give that to them, take them down the path where they can find. If they’re looking for products —

Lynn Serafinn: Exactly.

James Lynch: — take them down, avail, avail all the choices to them and that comes with, again totally understanding the audience.

Lynn Serafinn: Exactly.

James Lynch: Yeah, perfect. I really look forward to this book coming out. Now I can find some —

Lynn Serafinn: I can’t wait to try to finish them now.

James Lynch: I really do.

Lynn Serafinn: I’m just, I’ve been working so much with clients this past couple of months that I haven’t had the chance to — .I have all the whole content is done. It’s just to bring it all together. So July and August, they’re going to be with exception of a holiday period I’m taking. Those are going to be some months that I’m finishing it, I’m sure I’m going to sell. Wish me luck.

James Lynch: I do wish you luck and I’d like to have you back on too, so we can talk about and I’d like to help you distribute it and get it out there and because it sounds like, this is the way it’s going. The whole — your whole process and your whole thought process to this and you come from a very, very educated, very, you’re constantly learning and you’ve really thought long and hard about the basis of this. And I’m inspired and I’m excited and I’d like to ask you before we wrap, I don’t want to take up too much more of your time but if I, again my audience is more or less similar to yours. I have consultants, small business owners, Big Value Big Business, although now I wanted to kind of change it, the name to Big Value Good Business but I’ll stick with Big Business for now. But it’s still the Big Value, it’s leading with value and you speak so eloquently to that but I want ask you for a takeaway for my guys, for folks that are listening. Where do we start, how do we — without from the baby out with the bath water, there are so much spammy-scammy stuffs still out there, so where do we start to unlearn and baby steps get back to a tribal more ethical way of marketing?

Lynn Serafinn: I think one of the first things we have to do is come back to our own intuition and instincts. Basically if it feels yuck it probably is.

James Lynch: Is that a technical term?

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah.

James Lynch: I love it.

Lynn Serafinn: Because people say like I can’t stand doing that, it feels yuck.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: And I said, well then don’t do it.

James Lynch: Then don’t do it.

Lynn Serafinn: You know.

James Lynch: There’s probably something wrong with it.

Lynn Serafinn: If marketing a certain way feels really horrible then it’s not right for you and it’s probably not right for anybody. But I do think it is a matter of relearning, reframing what marketing is. As I said, when I’d say to people it’s the act of communicating that you have something of value to share, they just go, wow. And it just gives them so much space to then reinvent it the way that makes it work for them and to their clients because if we are interested in sharing value, as you know your company has the name, has that word in it.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: If we are interested in sharing value, then it’s really your chance to sit down and think well what is it that I have that’s valuable and really diving into all of the wonderful assets that you have. I think people in my experience and I’m sure in yours as well James, I think people grossly undervalue a lot of their personal assets and the experience. I think, I don’t want to name names but to there’s a woman that I know who’s an actress, recently well known television actress, one of her greatest assets is just her. It’s not her fame, it’s not her beauty either though she’s really, really beautiful, it’s that she’s just so real. And that’s tremendous asset and to — it may sound contradictory to say well then utilize that in your marketing. And so well, then she’s not real anymore. No it is. It’s about, because if marketing is simply the act of communicating that you have something a value to share, it means that you have to be mindful of staying in that real refreshing natural person in all of your marketing. And that’s really important. Now one of my biggest assets, it’s the fact that I’m eccentric. And so I utilize that. And another asset of mine is I am technical. People want my technical and strategic, so my technical and strategic expertise and my slight eccentricity all sort of things are some of my assets. So I have to learn how to utilize them to serve people. So if we want to look at, you know, the baby step, start first with yourself. Come back to yourself. Do a really good internal investigation of yourself. Read what is and isn’t working and don’t give up on marketing because you need it, you need it to make your business work.

James Lynch: Yeah marketing isn’t wrong, it’s not a sin but the way you do it can make or break to that.

Lynn Serafinn: Exactly.

James Lynch: Absolutely

Lynn Serafinn: And if you use marketing that feels yuck to you, it will feel yuck to your audience and down the line even if the other one — one more thing, aggressive marketing might make quick sales but it doesn’t win the long term race of this.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: It is not sustainable. Not sustainable. Not sustainable. And you won’t like yourself and your customers won’t like you. So don’t succumb to the temptation of quick fix of aggressive sales no matter what anybody says, don’t do it. I hate it. The other day I actually wrote somebody a letter because he had identified — he had done a joint venture with somebody who I thought was just a, I use this word a lot of smooch. And I couldn’t stand it and I said to the person, I said, do you know I would not even have attended such, such webinar if you hadn’t been on it because I can’t stand the way this other person was talking down to me and patronizing the clients. And I said, I thought you would want to know, now I have to be so really, I felt nervous writing this letter to this person but I thought I needed to say something. I needed to say, I value what you do. I respect what you do. Don’t let someone else make you look sleazy. Don’t let another marketer turn you into something sleazy, just, please don’t do that.

James Lynch: Well, there be other people associated with that other marketer’s list that will gravitate towards your friend that will obviously have something of more value for it.

Lynn Serafinn: Yes.

James Lynch: And so, so it was almost necessary for him to be there, it’s his duty to be there to rescue them from the throws — what do you call him the smoozzzzzz?

Lynn Serafinn: Schmooz.

James Lynch: The smooch. Scammy, scammy -spammy. Well I know that.

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah, yeah.

James Lynch: I started this endeavor in that world and you’ll notice I’m six-seven months into this and I don’t monetize anything, I’m just getting people like you out there that are getting it done, real people and bringing in them out to the masses and just letting people decide for themselves with direction they want to come to. But I just want to bring content.

Lynn Serafinn: Well, James, to about a month ago I had the pleasure of hosting a telesummit because it’s one of things I do when I launch author, I work with a lot of authors. And I launched Melanie Dodaro’s book on LinkedIn. And I got to interview Michael Steltzner from Social Media Examiner. Now, he — their site is tremendous. I can’t believe it, it’s something like, you know, the 96th most popular site in the world on Alexa or something like that. Maybe it’s not the 96th but it is like so high, yeah but it’s ridiculous, I felt, wow. But he didn’t monetize for like a year either. His sole goal was to produce content and grow the audience and he did not ask for a penny from his audience until he gets something like 100,000 subscribers or 10,000s, I can’t remember what the number was but he was only interested in growing the audience, sending out the message, giving the content, developing with content, no sales, no monetization. Now of course you have to have a way to make living while you’re doing that.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: But the point is, if you want to grow a really strong brand online, it’s like planting seeds in your back garden. If you water them every single day and say grow, grow, grow, they’re not going to grow any faster than they’re going to grow. You just have to, you know, if you put them on a hot house and give all kinds of artificial fertilizers, they’ll grow really fast and they’ll have really tough skins and they won’t taste very good. You know what I mean?

James Lynch: Right, right.

Lynn Serafinn: So, you have to let a business grow organically. And it doesn’t mean you have to be lazy about it.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: You should be the vigilant about it.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: But it is about cultivating and nurturing it. And allowing people to really understand what your brand is, what it stands for and who you are as a human being?

James Lynch: Sure and it also allows the brand builder to get direction and that’s what they did everyday.

Lynn Serafinn: Absolutely.

James Lynch: I learn something else and I’m not awash in the sea of confusion. It’s just, to him is only the point of the type of marketing that I want to do. And I have something to I’m going to stop monetizing. It’s a way from this. It’s to do with paid advertising that I’ve done for years. I’m just that crazy about doing it in an agency atmosphere where it’s that kind of scammy — not scammy but, how do you say it? Well I forget.

Lynn Serafinn: Smoozzz

James Lynch: Smooch, it’s smooch.

Lynn Serafinn: Smooching.

James Lynch: Yeah, to buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff and in case you didn’t hear it, buy my stuff. So yeah and I don’t know, I totally get it and I so appreciate the approach.

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah and to what people are starting to say is, why?

James Lynch: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: You know, that’s more and more and more and it’s like, actually, I know you’re on to wrap this up.

James Lynch: No.

Lynn Serafinn: But just to say, In 7 Graces of Marketing, I’m trying to remember what chapter it is. I think it’s in the chapter on the deadly sin of deception. Because a lot of our media advertising like television, radio and or a print, a print adverts even, because they go by like the wind, especially TV and radio adverts. In fact I used to have to teach media students how to make 29-second radio adverts back when I was teaching. I had to teach them how to do that. You know, how do you tell a story and sell the product in 29 seconds, that’s a challenge.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: But because they fly by the wind, there is a lot of cliché manipulative language that goes into media marketing that we are not even aware of and it speaks to us on a almost a preverbal level. And that’s what I talk about in that chapter on the Sin of Deception because there are things like say for instance, one of the things I cite in the book and this is something I noticed for years and I said, I’m dying to just point this out to people, it’s so bloody obvious. And it’s the whole thing reflect let’s say toothpaste or whatever, you know, nothing is more effective than Crest or whatever it is.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: Or Colgate, you know. What’s that mean? It means nothing. It doesn’t mean it’s the most effective and it doesn’t even mean that any toothpaste is effective.

James Lynch: It’s a validating phrase with no underlying —

Lynn Serafinn: It’s a deceptively validating.

James Lynch: It’s a, yes, yes.

Lynn Serafinn: But it has no, I mean, when you say nothing works faster or nothing is more effective, you know, nothing works faster or nothing is more effective, it doesn’t mean it’s the best, it doesn’t mean the most effective and it doesn’t even mean that any of them are effective.

James Lynch: I’ll give you another one. Prices is low as a $1.99 as low as but you may have one lead are the $1.99, the rest are —

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah, yes and that’s — but at least there are some element for sure.

James Lynch: There is, yeah, yeah, yeah. That should make it.

Lynn Serafinn: That’s got 2%, should the other ones got no proof. Not, not and so that’s the deceptive language that flies by us really fast and, you know, I’ve read another one the other day that I wish I could remember it. It’s something like clinical something, you know, says that, you know, 79% of those who have a preference would possibly recommend this if they were asked. And there were so many hypothetical things and in your brain gets rid of all of the hypothetical stuff.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: And says, oh gosh, you know, 79% say that they would choose it and that’s not what they were saying.

James Lynch: Yeah, yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: It’s absolutely wrong and it gives a totally false impression. So but, we are trained to accept statistics as real.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: And also when they go by very quickly, the brain actually doesn’t perceive negative statements. It translates them into positive statements. That’s a psychological — I mean, neurological fact.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: That if we say nothing works faster, our brain translates this as this is the fastest. And so, if you took this people to court, they would say but I didn’t say anything that was fault, it wasn’t a lie. And it’s true. It’s not a lie however, it is because of the way the brain works. And those are the kinds of really simple, simple things that if we start to become aware of them. Another one is the sin of distraction and distraction has to do with how the advertising industry now depends upon entertainment value over and above telling us anything worthwhile or useful or informative about the product that they’re asking us to buy.

James Lynch: Sure, sure.

Lynn Serafinn: And that’s really, that’s probably the biggest most pervasive deadly sin in advertising and marketing today and it’s the least recognized. Why, because people are entertained. You know, they’re entertained by the dancing pony. I don’t know if you had it over here. It was the three mobile network and they have this viral video of a dancing pony, a shetland pony dancing, doing like the moonwalk on a cliff. This video went viral everywhere. What the blank-kiddy-blank does that have to do with mobile phones? Absolutely nothing.

James Lynch: It’s all about the attention and it’s like the Super Bowl.

Lynn Serafinn: It’s all to have the attention.

James Lynch: The Super Bowl commercials.

Lynn Serafinn: Exactly.

James Lynch: They’re all about and, you know, let’s tune in to see what the most craziest, outrageous commercials are this year.

Lynn Serafinn: Well, speaking of that, Budweiser who was — you know, I don’t know if they — I’m not in the States and I don’t watch football but I know they used to be the Super Bowl advertisers.

James Lynch: Yes.

Lynn Serafinn: It is the classic, I think now it’s Ford and Chrysler and things like the Chrysler and things like that.

James Lynch: I can’t, I don’t even bother.

Lynn Serafinn: But the Budweiser, they’re not as the king of beers, they’re the king of distraction.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: Because like the whole, like you are as old as I am, you will remember the old Budweiser adverts with the frogs going “Bud-wei-ser”, you know, like that, you know.

James Lynch: Absolutely, absolutely.

Lynn Serafinn: What does it have to do with beer? What does it have to do with beer? It’s entertainment and it’s strictly planting it in your head.

James Lynch: Right.

Lynn Serafinn: And because people think it’s funny and it does back at the imagination, well, who is that they are trying to appeal to that might think that’s funny? But the fact is it’s distraction.

James Lynch: Yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: It’s distraction. It’s not telling me why to buy this beer and they said, well, nobody will watch the adverts if I just talk about that. Well, again, duh? You know, maybe, that’s the problem with that kind of advertising.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: Maybe the whole concept of media advertising is distructive, all of it. And so the people say, well, then how do we pay for television programs? Well, honey, that’s why we’re talking about creating a new paradigm right now.

James Lynch: That’s right.

Lynn Serafinn: I don’t know the answer. I don’t know the answer. All I know is it is causing a problem and just because we don’t have an alternative yet doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be talking about changing it.

James Lynch: No and you are on the forefront talking about changing ads.

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah.

James Lynch: I love, I love this.

Lynn Serafinn: I mean, I remember seeing a fella, do you know who Jeremy Paxton is? He is just a top gear here in Britain.

James Lynch: Do not, nope.

Lynn Serafinn: Okay, okay. He, I saw him on an episode actually of Who Do You Think You Are. I don’t have a TV but I’d watch shows on video and stuff.

James Lynch: Sure.

Lynn Serafinn: But he was on Who Do You Think You Are which is a genological show.

James Lynch: Oh yeah, yeah.

Lynn Serafinn: And he was — he made a really weird comment and I thought it’s so — it kind of comes back to what we’re talking about here. He was talking about some of his ancestors who had a factory and how it gone gotten shut down because of environmental issue. And he — so this is why I’m anti environmentalist, they are people who, you know, that they say because it’s ruining the water and this and this and this. 3000 people go and lose their jobs. And he went on and on and on about how he is an anti environmentalist and I thought that was kind of radical statement. But this is the same kind of concept. If we say, well we can’t change, we can’t get rid of the media marketing because it’s the thing that pays the program so people like to watch. That’s kind of the same thing as Jeremy Paxton saying, we cannot close the factories because 3000 people lose their jobs even if we’re polluting waters and the air and the land. Now, obviously, to say there are only two options here is not the right answer. It’s not about closing factories and people losing jobs and a choice between that and polluting the air, if you’re making it a choice between these two extremes, then we will never change. And marketing is the same thing. If we say that we need to television advertising and radio advertising to perpetuate the system that we created, and that there is no other alternative, then we will never change. And so that’s what I’m challenging. I’m saying, okay, in the next generation, I challenge the system to change. I really do. I don’t know what it should look like. I don’t know how you’re going to pay for the TV programs in this and this, but something has to change. It does have to change otherwise out economy is going to continue to falter, our environment will continue to falter and people will continue to be manipulated into consuming things that they need and doing to debt. So, something has to change. That’s it.

James Lynch: Amen!

Lynn Serafinn: Sorry I’m honest and so —

James Lynch: No, it’s great. And you know, you brought it full circle because it’s that the debt and the overconsumption and that’s perfect and I’d like to wrap it right there because that is absolutely perfect.

Lynn Serafinn: It’s the big picture.

James Lynch: It really is. It really is and I thank you so much. You’re so inspiring. I know my folks are going to love listening to every inch of this. And so tell me, we talked about the book coming out, where can we find you, what’s your Twitter handle, is everything The 7 Graces with the number seven, The 7 Graces of Marketing?

Lynn Serafinn: Well, the website is The7GracesofMarketing.com.

James Lynch: Yes.

Lynn Serafinn: And yes that’s with the number seven and they can find me on Twitter either @LynnSerafinn with two Ns in both names, no other double letters. So L-Y-N-N S-E-R-A-F-I-N-N or either, I have 7 graces, one was 7gracesmarketng, there is no I in it because I’ve ran out of letters. So it’s 7gracesmarketng.

James Lynch: Marketng.

Lynn Serafinn: And I have another one that’s a spirit authors, it’s specifically advised for people who write, and that’s on Twitter and also the SpiritAuthors.com. We do — we offer, offering building packages, you know, we work with people to develop ethical marketing packages, we are going to be launching our 7 Graces Course in the autumn. We ran two pilot runs of these foundations of ethical marketing and also applications of ethical marketing which is a certification program. And we did like I said two pilot groups and now we’re in the process of revising and bumping it up and getting of cleaning it up and streamlining it and making all the templates nice and clean.

James Lynch: Great.

Lynn Serafinn: And formalizing the assessment program, I mean these are proper courses and by the end of the applications course, people leave with a very cohesive marketing, business and marketing plan for ethical marketing and they get certification. And we’ve been actually approached by some universities to get it a credit to just well. So I’m hoping time that will happen.

James Lynch: Wow.

Lynn Serafinn: And also the students, so that the students can learn some of the stuff.

James Lynch: Then you’ll see the next generation of that one there after.

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah.

James Lynch: Then you’ll see them taking charge. That’s great!

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah.

James Lynch: I’m so happy.

Lynn Serafinn: Yeah, I hope so.

James Lynch: Okay, that’s awesome! Listen, I thank you so much for your time Lynn. We’ll look forward to the book coming out.

Lynn Serafinn: Me too.

James Lynch: Our folks will be able to see everything we talked about transcript to all the links at BigValueBigBusiness.com/episode27 and hey we’ll talk to you hopefully in October.

Lynn Serafinn: I will be here, just give me a shout.

James Lynch: Sounds good, thank you so much.

Lynn Serafinn: Thank you.

James Lynch: Take care. Bye-bye.

Lynn Serafinn: You too, bye.

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