005: Jason Clegg – Killer Content Crushes SEO The Next Generation Online Marketing

jason-clegg
Jason comes to us from ConvertWithContent.com where he is the founder and CEO.  He has been helping small business owners get dramatically better results with their web marketing for well over 10 years.

Jason is a man on a mission to help entrepreneurs & small business owners convert tire-kicking prospects into lifetime customers &
raving fans!

Have a listen to my chat with Jason

Check out the transcript or download it to read later: ENJOY!

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Highlights:

Not good enough to charge for what you know?
When you think you don’t know enough to be able to get paid to help other people remember: “ I started realizing that I did know a lot more than the people that I was meeting and that I could provide value to them”

One of the biggest challenges to success that the beginner and seasoned entrepreneur faces on an on-going basis.
Overcoming internal bias through clarity and vision, “I think the major struggle was always having that clarity and that vision and dealing with my own sort of internal bias and overcoming it to be more successful.”

4. Maintaining a good physical condition is just as important as keeping a positive state of mind
I once heard Richard Branson — someone asked him, “What’s your secret to success?” And he sort of paused for about 10 seconds and then he said, “Working out.”

Jason on Big Value:
“The concept of providing value and giving people content (which) is foundational to everything we do in our business today…”

“I really think that’s a core marketing principle that’s a lot older than either of us and has been around for as long as business and marketing have been around and as long as communication has been around and really my view of marketing, it’s just – at it’s core, it’s just a way of building a relationship with your customer.”

“And so today’s customer is really sensitive about the kind of relationship they have with the people they do business with and not just major brands but small businesses as well.”

“Customers and consumers want to feel like there’s some connection there. And I think that if you just look at human beings and the way we’re engineered, we are constantly seeking something better and we’re constantly – like we are value seekers.”

How things get sold…today compared to yesterday
Glengarry Glen Ross – movie
“that’s a movie I think every business owner should watch – and every marketer as well. You watch that movie and you realize how much things have changed and in terms of how things get sold.”

A book that illustrates this nicely is:
Changing the Channel by Michael Masterson – MaryEllen Tribby

Be an Early Adoptor
“we have a weekly SMS message that we do. It’s called our Monday Marketing Minute and every Monday, you get a text message from us with some kind of marketing tip…”

Nothing beats a great state of the art customer relationship management tool.
“I am a bible thumping Infusion Soft guy”

Lead generation
“Well, my number goal is supposed to be lead generation and I understand the principles of direct response marketing so I need to turn my website into a lead generation machine.”

Give yourself a time audit
“at least once a quarter is time logging where I literally track my every move by the minute for an entire day and just to see where all of my time is going and I create a little pie chart out of it and I say, “Okay. Well, something on this pie has got to go.” And I think basic things like that if you actually do them, they yield massive results.”

World Class or Mediocre?
“you sort of have to remember like an Olympic athlete has a very clear goal in mind and so why not treat your business in the same way?….”
“So it’s up to you if you want to have a mediocre business then (you have to) do mediocre things and if you want to have a world class business, then you have to do world class things…”

Have a listen to my chat with Jason


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Transcript
BigValueBigBusiness.comTranscriptJason Clegg
ConvertWithContent.comJames: I want to welcome my very special guest today from convertwithcontent.com, Mr. Jason Clegg. Hello Jason. How are you today?Jason: I’m doing great, James. Thanks for having me.James: Awesome, awesome. I’m so grateful to have the privilege to chat with you today and I’m really, really, really excited for you to share with our listeners everything you know about providing killer web content and how that content can lead to successful business development.Jason: Cool. Yeah. I’m excited, too. I know we’ve chatted a little bit beforehand and both of us have similar ideas about how this should be done so and looking forward to practicing what we preach here and providing some value for your listeners, too.James: Awesome, awesome. Yeah. We’ll get to the nuts and bolts in a second and you do have plenty in your toolbox, but let’s first talk about you and your history. Can we get a little background on Jason Clegg? Like where you came from and maybe a little bit about the journey that brought you here to where you are today?

Jason: Definitely. So I got started as an entrepreneur while I was in college and I studied Literature and Philosophy in college, two disciplines that really have very little to do with making money, but they’re two things that later came in to help me in a massive way especially when I started to realize how important content and copywriting were as business skills. So while I was in college, I started my first business selling used textbooks as a third party seller online. This is long before it was ever chic to have an online business, and long before everybody and their grandmother had a blog and a Facebook account. So that was how I kind of got started and I ended up graduating from college, finishing my studies and selling that business because I realized that I wanted to focus on what I love most about doing it which was marketing.

And I also realized that I didn’t really like the idea of having the 10,000 plus textbooks around me all the time that was getting a bit overwhelming. So I thought, what if I get rid of all these textbooks and try to have a business without inventory? And in a lot of ways, retail which is the type of business I started in is a business I still have a lot of passion for today and I think it’s so important for marketing people to have the experience in business and that’s still with me even now. You’ll hear me talk a lot about how marketing doesn’t matter unless there are some objectives, unless there are some connections to return our investment.

James: Awesome, awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Going from inventory-laden to working online and pointing people in the right direction is a big switch, a big dynamic and definitely a direction I wanted to take early on as well, but tell me have you always been an entrepreneur or was there a point in time where you worked for someone else?

Jason: Yeah. I mean, I’ve had “normal jobs” but even as a young boy, I have – entrepreneurship is a strong streak in my family and I have lots of memories. My brother and I — my brother is about five years older and so I was constantly the younger brother under his tutelage and he was always an aspiring entrepreneur, too. And so I remember having lots of different money making schemes that we were involved with from mowing the neighborhood lawns, all the cliché things plus a lot of really wacky ones that I won’t go into to here, nothing elicit or bad or criminal but definitely stuff that I look back on it now and I think, “What was I thinking?”

And I even had experiences at a young age in direct mail which is something I’m still passionate about now. I mean, I’m commonly cited as being a web marketing thinker but my thinking and my expertise is really marketing in general and today I just really focus on the web because I think it’s one of the fastest ways and one of the best tools for growing your business. But even at a young age I was exposed to direct response marketing and I just found a passion for it. So I went on to start more traditional businesses like the textbook thing I mentioned and then I taught college for a while.

James: Oh wow.

Jason: Yeah. I taught Business Writing and Communication classes and College Writing stuff and so. My passion for writing and creating content is always been lurking there in the background.

James: Early in your career, what was one of the biggest challenges you faced while trying to pursue your passion?

Jason: I think the biggest challenge I faced then and continue to face today and I think this is common to all entrepreneurs is myself. I think that you in order to become successful in business, if you’re going to go at it alone and again I’m talking about the sort of small business approach, I’m not talking people who go and get venture capital funding and sort of spend other people’s money. I’m talking about people who put their entire life on the line.

James: Bootstrapping.

Jason: Bootstrapping. Absolutely. And so I think it’s so critical that you deal with yourself and that you face reality and you accept that you are a challenge and you have to overcome your mind and you have to overcome your body. And what I mean by that is you have to realize that nobody else is going to make the business grow except for you which means you need to be in your top state mentally and in your top state physically as much as you possibly can. So the most basic challenge if I had to boil it down to one thing in that sort of broad category would be fear and not realizing that – not being able to sort of tap into the success mechanisms that you need to mentally to say, “I can do this and I’m going to make it happen.” So that really for me — I never experienced major financial struggles. Everything I did always with sort of cash flow positive and it was bootstrapping upon itself and – but for me, I think the major struggle was always having that clarity and that vision and dealing with my own sort of internal bias and overcoming it to be more successful.

James: Yeah, totally. The battle took place in the field of the mind?

Jason: Yeah. Absolutely.

James: Yeah. Was there a point in time where you had your big breakthrough or you really realized like, “Yeah, this is where I’m going and there is no turning back? No plan B.” Can you tell me about that?

Jason: Definitely. When I made the transition away from my first business, the textbooks to being a marketing consultant, I had no idea what I was doing. I had read some books by Robert Bly about copywriting and I thought, “Oh, that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to hang out my hat and to be a copywriter.” And I put my own direct mail program together and sent this direct mail package out to something like a thousand small businesses in my area and with a return reply postcard, all this is probably going to sound pretty foreign to a lot of your listeners.

James: I subscribed to Robert Bly. I’ve got…

Jason: Oh, good, good.

James: I probably still have those books somewhere.

Jason: Good. So that was how I started and amazingly people did send those cards back and I got appointments and I ended up getting clients and I mean, I was successful marketing my own online business and I knew that I could help people get their stuff moving forward. But I really – it’s not like I had a plan beyond that point. And so I’d say that the moment I knew it was going to work is when I started getting clients and I started realizing that I did know a lot more than the people that I was meeting and that I could provide value to them.

And then the major breakthrough for me was when I started to realize what everybody needed and I put together a team of copywriters and I expanded my reach to businesses around the world by taking advantage of Google AdWords and Pay Per Click when that’s started to become possible when Google sort of launched that, and I had my own website and we were doing businesses with people on Australia and London. And I thought, “Okay, this is it. We’re really on to something here.” So that was kind of the first breakthrough point for me, I would say.

James: Great. That’s a great realization.

Jason: Oh, yeah.

James: So with this success that you found, how do you think that the value you provide at some point in time is contributed to your success? Did you have some kind of a value epiphany? I mean, you talked a lot about the mental game and what it takes as an entrepreneur inside but as far as – you walk a fine line between doing business and providing fantastic value. Could you tell me about that and how that value kind of contributed to your success?

Jason:  Sure. I – the concept of providing value and giving people content which is foundational to everything we do in our business today, that’s an idea that I feel like I have accepted for a very long time. And it’s – I really think that’s a core marketing principle that’s a lot older than either of us and has been around for as long as business and marketing have been around and as long as communication has been around and really my view of marketing, it’s just – at it’s core, it’s just a way of building a relationship with your customer. And so today’s customer is really sensitive about the kind of relationship they have with the people they do business with and not just major brands but small businesses as well. Customers and consumers want to feel like there’s some connection there.

James: Yes.

Jason: And I think that if you just look at human beings and the way we’re engineered, we are constantly seeking something better and we’re constantly – like we are value seekers. I really believe that and I think consumers now are so much more powerful than they’ve even been before and a lot of businesses are kind of resisting that and they don’t want to accept it. And just the other night, my wife and I were watching one of my favorite movies Glengarry Glen Ross. And that’s a movie I think every business owner should watch because you watch that – and every marketer as well. You watch that movie and you realize how much things have changed and in terms of how things get sold.

And this also reminds me of a book I just read recently, the book is called Changing the Channel by Mary Ellen Tribby, I believe is the author’s name. And in that book she describes how she bought the house with her husband today kind of in a modern era and compares that and contrasts it with how her father bought a house in the 1950s. And the experience that she had as a consumer and kind of what happened dealing with real estate agents and going through the process and how people marketed to her was so dramatically different than what her father went through. And her father’s experience was there was one real estate agent in town and he had to work with that person, there was no internet, there was no information to empower him as a consumer, there were – the only channel of marketing was really the postbox and the telephone and really telemarketing hadn’t even really had its heyday yet.

So really there is only one form of or one medium that’s going to reach him and then she contrasted that with her experience buying the house today and the thousands of marketing messages she got from not just realtors but people selling furnishing, people selling everything related to being a new homeowner. And so anyway, I think this idea of value is so much more important than it’s ever been before. It’s just going to keep increasing the need to be valuable and to treat your customers with respect and care.

James: I think what you’re alluding to is that the value has to cut through the noise?

Jason: Yes. And that has to be part of your sort of USP in a way. So you’ve got to be able to connect with your consumer and getting your message across to them and having a unique selling proposition and knowing like, okay, this message is going to reach you and I’m going to build a relationship with you that are about more than just selling this product to you. I’m here to actually provide a solution, and hopefully a lifetime solution if you plan to be in business for more than just a couple of years.

James: Yeah. Service before during and after the sale.

Jason: Right.

James: I totally agree. So tell me while we’re talking about USP, how about your value proposition? Could you give me a peek inside the Convert with Content mission statement?

Jason: Sure. So our mission statement is that we help you turn tire kickers into lifetime customers and raving fans. So our idea of helping a business grow is about helping people understand the complete customer life cycle process and we look at our approach as a marketing company as being about more than just helping you increase sales today. We’re looking more at the entire life cycle of your customers and helping you understand the very framework of your business. So a lot of business owners are making the mistake of thinking, we call this sort of like Labor Day advertising, right? Like how can I get this thing out the door and sell more of it right now, which is not a bad – it’s not a bad thing to do.

Plenty of business owners could benefit from more of a sales minded approach. But we want to think more about how can we actually reengineer your business so that you are going to be there and build a relationship for the lifetime of your customers? So stuff like lifetime customer value is built into our mission statement and we want to help people understand that it’s about more than just getting people to whip their credit card out. We want them to stick around and build that relationship.

James: That’s great. And you sound like you have a very holistic business development plan.

Jason: You mean, as part of this mission statement and the focus on lifetime customer value or…?

James: As a product of Convert with Content, you bring that to your customers. You teach them all of those things which is very, very valuable. You’re not just providing content; you’re providing them with business development. Is that a fair statement?

Jason: Yeah. Definitely. And I like to think of it too as – again, practicing what we preach. So we try very hard to build our content marketing strategies in a way that is can be served as an example for what our customers might do. So we want our customers to have an experience of being part of our community and being part of getting messages that they feel are tailored to them and that there is something more happening than just “Here’s another email from these guys.”

We want customers to feel like, “There is a message here. It’s being tailored to me. They understand what I want. I’m being hit between the eyes with the message that matters most to me.” And that’s what good marketing is, right? So we’re not perfect at that. Nobody is. But we’re constantly getting better and I think it’s a combination of skills and technology and in data. Gathering as much data as you can about your customers to figure out what they really want and then tailoring your messages to people based on what they’re telling you.

James: Yes. And you and I talked about that before we got on the podcast about your email series and how – we talked about how it’s so personalized. And that is the technology/know-how that you would bring to other business owners that someone could say, “Hey, Jason, I want that. I want that for my customers.” And they can point to that and so you are walking your talk.

Jason: Definitely. Definitely. And a lot of small business owners are little bit techno phobic and that’s unfortunate because – I’m sure you remember the days when email marketing was as simple as having an autoresponder in place.

James: Absolutely.

Jason: And here we are again, consumers are smarter. It doesn’t have the same effect that it used to have. So the better you can get at leveraging technology and staying ahead of the curve, I mean we do something in our business now that still very uncommon and even today, I get messages every once in a while from people saying, “Why are you doing this? This seems crazy.” And what I’m talking about is we have a weekly SMS message that we do. It’s called our Monday Marketing Minute and every Monday, you get a text message from us with some kind of marketing tip and for some people this is so revolutionary, they can’t even understand why we would be doing it and it seems just ridiculous that we would want to like send people text messages. But it’s for me, it’s – if you can be an early adopter of technology and not resist then you’re going to reap so many more benefits.

I mean, imagine if you could go back in time and you could be one of the first people to join Twitter. Back when it was – people would say, “You’re crazy. What is Twitter have to do with business?” If you would have overcome that in objection you had and again, this gets back to something I was saying earlier about how the greatest challenges getting over yourself. And if you could overcome that, today you would – I guarantee, if you would have had even a modicum of activity on Twitter but you were one of the early adopters, you’ll be reaping huge rewards from that today. I mean, virtually guaranteed. So I think there is a major advantage in being an early adopter.

James: Yeah. And especially anything that has to do with a mobile device that will –

Jason: Oh, yeah.

James: – everyone has on their person at any given time or is just two feet away from them when they’re sleeping so.

Jason: Absolutely. Or take email marketing. We get this objection a lot. We love Infusion Soft. I mean, I am a bible thumping Infusion Soft guy and I think it’s just one of the greatest CRM email marketing tools out there for small businesses today. Sure, there are other tools and some of them might be better but nothing fits hand in glove as well as Infusion Soft does for small business. And you would be – it’s amazing how many small businesses say, “Oh, well, I’ll pay $20 a month to Constant Contact but there is no way I’d ever consider paying $200 a month for Infusion Soft. You know, it’s ridiculous.”

James: Yeah. This is autoresponder program in the Constant Contact and then there’s the CRM in the Infusion Soft.

Jason: Right. Exactly.

James: And there lies the difference.

Jason: Yes.

James: All right. Let’s talk about some advice that you might be able to give to – say you had a close family member that were struggling to build a business online either they were just getting started or they wanted to bring their existing business to the next level. Jason, what would be like the first piece of advice that you’d offer to them?

Jason: Well, first I would want to know what kind of a business we’re talking about, sort of where they are. If were – are we talking about someone whose got like a local retail business and they’re trying to go online or are talking about something whose absolutely starting from square one?

James: Well, let’s talk about – and I’m a little selfish when I ask this question.

Jason: Okay.

James: Let’s just talk about — your wife, Stephanie so eloquently put that you guys love small businesses.

Jason: Yes.

James: I deal with a lot of mom and pop businesses that they were told way back in the day that they needed a website so they’ve got this website out there and they can’t put the pieces together to be able to turn this website into a traffic generating lead producing machine for them that’s just out there. It’s a brochure, it’s an outdated brochure. So if you were to may be give some advice to someone that was in that situation, a small business that was looking to get into the online space, obviously you don’t want them to run right out and go to Infusion Soft subscription –

Jason: Right.

James: – is that where they’d be and a little bit over their heads — but in baby steps, incremental steps, what would you suggest?

Jason: Well, the first thing I think people need to do is they need to understand that – they need to understand the core principles of direct response marketing. So they need to understand that the number one goal in your business should be lead generation because without lead generation you have no way to keep your hopper or to fill up with people that can continue to climb your customer ladder. So if lead generation is the most important thing, forget about the medium.

A website and the internet is just another medium. It’s just another form of media.
So, all the principles of direct response still apply and of course, we’re talking about direct response, we’re talking about marketing that is targeting your customer right between the eyes, you know exactly who they are, you know exactly what their problems are, and you know exactly how you can uniquely solve these problems, and then the response of course is targeting that person and getting them to take some form of action with your marketing.

So if you understand those principles and you look at your website, you can immediately tell yourself, “Well, my number goal is supposed to be lead generation and I understand the principles of direct response marketing so I need to turn my website into a lead generation machine.” So there are a couple of things that are important about this. First, stop listening to your geeky web programmer guy because – or your sexy flashy design guy or girl as the case maybe.

James: I know you have this first-hand experience with this because I do, too.

Jason: Yes, yes. And no discredit to these types of people because they’re very important. You need them in your toolbox, but you cannot let them dictate the rules of engagement for your website and you cannot let them dictate how a website is supposed to look and feel. Because guess what? The chances of that person, your web designer, your web programmer being your target customer or prospect is probably very small. So stop listening to the people who are not in your target market. And I think this is one of the major things that is if you want your website to generate more leads for your business, then you have to set it up as though that’s the only thing that matters because it is, the only thing that matters.

And so a lot of things come to my mind – like first of all, let’s stop worrying about how visually appealing the website is because that’s not really important. What’s important is how easy is it for a customer to convert into a lead? So do you have an opt-in form that’s above the fold and easy to find on all pages? Are you converting with content to borrow our methodology here? Are you presenting great content on this site and then offering something that allows your customer to take the next step. Website visitors are very, very lazy people. They – you have to act like the old thing from great copywriter Gary Halbert is you got to act like your prospect is sitting cozy in their recliner and there is frost and snow six inches deep outside and the fire is roaring in their cozy little living room and you have to convince them to get up out of their seat and take action, and that’s how you need to sort of begin thinking about your website.

You should make your prospect feel like, “This is absolutely the next thing I need to do right now. Give you my first name and my email address.” And let’s – breaking that down even further you need to have some kind of a lead attraction device, some information or free thing you’re giving away that compels people to do that.

James: Fantastic. That’s Web Marketing 101 and I appreciate you fine tuning that because that was a very, very open-ended question. But I like to throw that out there and say, “With some of the great minds that I have on and like where does one start? And my focus is and that’s?” Well, one of the reasons why I started this podcast is because I feel so badly for people having worked in an agency, we’re selling them all these advertising but we’re sending traffic to the building that’s broken. The front door has locked. It’s boarded up and it’s really frustrating and you get it and that message that you gave us was so fantastic and I totally, totally appreciate it.

Jason: And my final word of advice just because I have to beat this one in –

James: Sure.

Jason: – And as hard as I possibly can is, when you’re done with all of that, putting your lead on your website, putting an opt-in form there, do not go back and ask your graphic designer what they think about it.

James: Right.

Jason: Because they are probably not trained in these things and they don’t understand that your objective is to grow your business. They understand that your objective is to make them go, “Oh, that’s so aesthetically pleasing to me.” So this is the problem I think and this is – I see this every day. We get new clients all the time and this is one of the first places we have to begin is. Oh, so let’s undo all of the stuff that was done to you by these other people.

James: This is textbook folks, you guys listen up because this guy knows what he is talking about and go to convertwithcontent.com to hear more.

Jason: Yeah. Please do. And to download our free report there which I’m actually about to release version – technically version 3.0 but we’ll just cut version 2.0 with my classic report updated for the latest stuff that’s going on.

James: Great, great. I can’t wait to see it because I do have the current version on my hard drive. Hey, while we’re talking about what’s going on at Convert with Content, can you tell me anything about any particular project maybe a little SEO Cure?

Jason: Yeah. That’s right. You’ve heard it here first. I am about to launch a new project. I’m really excited about it. It’s called the SEO Cure and this is a project I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. SEO is one of the first things that – we kind of – I kind of consider this like the entry conversation we have with a lot of our clients. SEO is sort of the buzz word that most small business owners learn when they start learning about website marketing.

James: Agreed.

Jason: So yeah. So you see this happening, too. Somehow and some way, they get a hold of a book at the local bookstore if that’s still exists and/or whatever happens to them, they do some kind of Web Marketing 101 research and they find out that it’s all about SEO. And SEO is one of those deceptively seductive kinds of things about web marketing because – and I think the reason that it appeals to web – to business owner is – business owners are very interested in numbers and objectives and formulas. And so this idea that, “Oh, great. So I can make these changes to my website and low and behold, I get to the top of Google.”

And that makes sense to me because I use Google everyday and I’m sure my customers do, too. And if I go there now and I typed in Los Angeles auto insurance then there are websites there and wouldn’t it be great if I were there? So SEO is definitely kind of a critical thing that’s on the mind of a lot of small business owners and most people are very misinformed and miseducated about this. So my objective with this project is to offer lots of great information to help you rewire your thinking about SEO and so that’s how I came up with this idea of the SEO Cure. I’m going to cure you of your SEO whoaws.

James: Well, it is a very, very fast changing landscape, SEO.

Jason: It is and this is the other problem. It’s one of the first things that I want to help people with and every time we talked about SEO is like first of all let’s swallow the horse pills speaking of cures – let’s swallow the horse pill of reality that this is dynamic constantly changing terrain and you Mr. or Mrs. Small business owner are trying to put it in this little box and draw these lines around it and it doesn’t work that way. So if we can overcome that hurdle right out the gate, then we’re going to be a lot more successful going forward.

James: Absolutely, absolutely. I totally agree and I was going to ask you the relationship between SEO and how we’re becoming more and more – SEO (search engine optimization), search engine results page placement, how that’s becoming more and more dependent upon the quality of the content, is it answering the query question?

Jason: Yeah. And that’s a huge factor and I think it’s one of the most frustrating things for small business owners is “Oh, well, I’m supposed to produce all this quality, unique, valuable content? Well, what is that even mean? And my business provides all kinds of value, so why do I have to provide this valuable content? And I’m just a plumber or a dry cleaner or butcher, baker, candle stick maker. So what the hell am I doing like blogging?”

And again, this gets back to principle one which is let’s accept the reality and let’s not try to beat the system that is there and is very real. So obviously, content plays a major role in search engine results. And so anyway, in terms of SEO in general, a lot of my philosophy again is all about ROIs. So if we’re going to put energy into this, let’s make sure that the energy is closely tied to a measurable ROI and we’re actually growing the business. There is no reason to go out and become a bona fide SEO guru just so you can make a few extra sales every month.

James: Yes ROI. And I do – I went through your stealth program where you kind of unravel the ROI equation for content. It’s good stuff. Good stuff.

Jason: Yeah. And that’s a model that people can follow that will help them understand like, “Okay. So I need content and I need to be active on social media so I can build some authority for my website. And so, how do I do that?” So I’m always interested in these kinds of business life-hacking questions like: how can you grow your business if you just spent 30 minutes a day on social media?” Okay. Well, maybe that will generate an ROI. But is that going to work for you or is that the best use of your time?

For some people, it might be smarter if you just shortcut the whole process and spend 30 minutes a day working on a book that you’re going to get published with Wiley or Random House or some major publisher, and then you can sort of shortcut the whole like “I need all this authority to grow my business process.” So I think it’s important for people to ask big questions like that and how they’re using their time and time is obviously the most important asset we have.

James: And we’re here to help you analyze your particular situation and to give you help.

Jason: Yes.

James: Awesome. Hey, let’s shift gears for a moment and I know your time is valuable. I’m going to start to wrap things up. But if we could just get into your head a little bit maybe to find out how you keep – I mean, you sound like your very well put together, aggressive, smart and handsome according to your wife –

Jason: Oh, well, that’s good to know.

James: – a businessman know, but seriously how do you keep your head in the game and keep moving towards your personal and business goals? I guess because this is a business podcast. How do you keep your mind sharp and your moving towards your business goals?

Jason: Well, I think you have to look at what other people are doing and make sure you’re not doing that.

James: Innovate – innovate rather than imitate?

Jason: Right. And you have to be willing to make certain sacrifices and you have to be willing to realize what you’re trying to achieve and – when I built my business to sort of stage one, I spent the better part of three or four years just traveling the world with my laptop and kind of letting other people run my business for me and that was a lot of fun and I got to see cool places in the world and I got to travel and have fun experiences. But then at a certain point I realized that my business was plateauing and it wasn’t really going to be satisfying to me if it just sort of remained the same. And so I think you have to be constantly pushing the bar higher.

And sometimes when I start to feel discouraged or I’m second guessing things, I kind to try to remind myself like when I’m passing up an invitation to a Friday night party or social gathering so I can work on my next product or a book I’m writing or whatever it might be, you sort of have to remember like an Olympic athlete has a very clear goal in mind and so why not treat your business in the same way? Why not approach it as though you are an Olympic athlete? And I really think that if you’re going to do that, you’re going to invest that level of commitment physically, mentally, and emotionally then you’re going to yield commensurate result. And if you don’t, the same rule applies.

So it’s up to you if you want to have a mediocre business then you have to do mediocre things and if you want to have a world class business, then you have to do world class things and that means understanding what you want and being willing to invest. And then just on a like basic time management level, there are lots of little things I do that people would consider very, very strange, but I know they work. And for example, one of the strangest things for some people about my routine is, I have a formal office but I also have a home office and I tend to prefer my home office and I have a treadmill desk and an elliptical, I have both of those things here where I am today. And I’m sometimes taking calls well I’m walking three miles an hour on my treadmill desk and…

James: Awesome, awesome.

Jason: It really – I once heard Richard Branson — someone asked him, “What’s your secret to success?” And he sort of paused for about 10 seconds and then he said, “Working out.” And that really stuck with me and I think that you have to – you have to keep yourself engaged on all spheres of your person including the physical stuff and it’s so important, and to constantly trying new things, new time management things, new little procedures you can do and testing, experimenting.

My last comment here about time management just because I think it’s so important, something I tried to do at least once a quarter is time logging where I literally track my move, my every move by the minute for an entire day and just to see where all of my time is going and I create a little pie chart out of it and I say, “Okay. Well, something on this pie has got to go.” And I think basic things like that if you actually do them, they yield massive results.

James: Fantastic answer and some really good points to take away. Jason, we really appreciate the time you spent with us today. Can you tell us – we talked about the SEO Cure, but any other projects that you’ve got going on that you want our listeners to know about and then maybe let us know how to contact you, email, Twitter, however you best want us folks to reach out to you and then we’ll wrap it up.

Jason: Sure. Yeah. I think aside from the SEO Cure which is something that’s going to be released very soon and I’m very excited about it, I mentioned Infusion Soft earlier and I really do believe that the most important thing for websites and businesses is to generate leads and Infusion Soft is my favorite tool for that and so I’m working also on a course that will be connected to Infusion Soft and a lot of free materials and some premium stuff to help people understand how they can use it to like Infusion Soft to grow their business, to get more leads, to do better email marketing, to learn more about lead source tracking and understanding where they’re getting the biggest bang for their marketing bucks.

So that is something to be on the lookout for. But in the meantime, you can stay in touch with me very easily if you go to convertwithcontent.com and if you go there, I have a really cool free report called the seven massive mistakes in website marketing and you’ll also get access to my free video series which I’m constantly expanding and all the cool stuff that’s going on for us at Convert with Content, you can find out about our services and everything that we do. So that’s the very best way to get in touch with us. So that sort to sums it up, I guess.

James: That’s great. So we can find you at convertwithcontent.com.

Jason: Absolutely.

James: Awesome. All right my friend. Thank you again for your time. You have a great day.

Jason, we’ll talk to you soon.

Jason: You, too. All right. Bye, bye.

James: Okay. Thanks. Bye, bye.

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